Wednesday, February 28, 2007

God kills 70,000 because of David's census

2 Samuel 24:1-17 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

So the king said to Joab and the army commanders with him, "Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are." But Joab replied to the king, "May the LORD your God multiply the troops a hundred times over, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king want to do such a thing?"

The king's word, however, overruled Joab and the army commanders; so they left the presence of the king to enroll the fighting men of Israel.

After crossing the Jordan, they camped near Aroer, south of the town in the gorge, and then went through Gad and on to Jazer. They went to Gilead and the region of Tahtim Hodshi, and on to Dan Jaan and around toward Sidon. Then they went toward the fortress of Tyre and all the towns of the Hivites and Canaanites. Finally, they went on to Beersheba in the Negev of Judah.

After they had gone through the entire land, they came back to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days. Joab reported the number of the fighting men to the king: In Israel there were eight hundred thousand able-bodied men who could handle a sword, and in Judah five hundred thousand.

David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, David's seer: "Go and tell David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.' "

So Gad went to David and said to him, "Shall there come upon you three years of famine in your land? Or three months of fleeing from your enemies while they pursue you? Or three days of plague in your land? Now then, think it over and decide how I should answer the one who sent me."

David said to Gad, "I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men."

So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the LORD was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

When David saw the angel who was striking down the people, he said to the LORD, "I am the one who has sinned and done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Let your hand fall upon me and my family."


PERSONAL COMMENTARY

1. God was angry at Israel so he incited David to take a census
2. David decides to take a census of the fighting men
3. God punishes David by sending a plague on Israel killing 70,000 of the people
4. This was accomplished by an "angel who was afflicting the people"
5. When this angel was about to destroy Jerusalem, God decides to cease the killing

I need some help in grasping this one. Was God just looking for an excuse to kill the people because he was angry with them so he incited David to take a census? What was so wrong with taking a census? Did David disobey God by only counting the "fighting men."? Why are there angels killing people?

16 comments:

Roopster said...

If you read the parallel version of this story in 1 Chronicles 21, it states

1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

Who incited David to take the census, God or Satan?

Also, the NIV says 3 years of famine in verse 13, however, other versions say 7 years of famine. Which is correct? Did modern translations use 3 to parallel the 1 Chronicles 21 story which says 3?

Roopster said...

BTW, here's the explanation on the 7 vs. 3:

Seven follows the Masoretic Text, Syriac, Targum, and Vulgate; Septuagint reads three

Roopster said...

For those of you who do not know, the "The Septuagint (IPA: ['sɛptuədʒɪnt]), or simply "LXX", is the name commonly given in the West to the ancient, Koine Greek version of the Old Testament translated in stages between the 3rd to 1st century BCE in Alexandria. It is the oldest of several ancient translations of the Hebrew Bible into Greek." (Wikipedia)

In other words it's a translation where the correction from 7 to 3 was made... not in the original text.

tiny tim said...

God and Satan are the same. David is Satan in 1 Samuel 29:4. The sons of Zeruiah are Satan in 2 Samuel 19:22. Hadad the Edomite is Satan in 1 Kings 11:14. Rezon is Satan in 1 Kings 11:23.

Satan is the Hebrew word for "adversary". Nothing more, nothing less.

tiny tim said...

About the three vs. seven years of famine, here's a solid possibility:

In 2 Samuel 21:1, we're told there was a "famine in the days of David three years, year after year...". By the time 2 Samuel 24 rolls around, Israel was in its 4th year of famine. Add another possible three years of famine in 24:13 and we've got a grand total of seven years of famine.

Hence the so-called "discrepency". 1 Samuel 24:13 is a sum of all the years of famine (E.g. "Do you want there to be a famine in the land for a total of seven years instead of only four?"), while 1 Chronicles 21 focuses only on the duration of the latest famine.

Either that or "three" and "seven" are copy errors. :)

Roopster said...

TT,

So you're saying that since God was being adversarial here, his "role" was referred to as Satan.

In other words, Christianity has personified a "role" that can be played by several individuals into an entity "Satan".... However, this entity does not really exist.

Correct?

Interesting concept.....

tiny tim said...

Exactly. Christianity has perverted and personified the Bible concept of "adversary" in the same way they've perverted and personified the identity of Lucifer.

There should be no doubt whatsoever that mortal, normal people in Scripture are described as being "satan". When looking at the two accounts in 1 Chr 21 and 2 Sam 23, God was David's adversary by "stirring him up, therefore fulfilling the "satan" role.

Jason said...

Reagrding the last question on your original comment, angels killing people, or in the proper sense, specifically doing the will of God, is done a few times elsewhere. For example, an angel killed all firstborn in Egypt during the last plague. An angel killed 185,000 warriors in one night in 2 Kings 19:35. A pair of angels brought the destruction on Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19:13. Then there all the references to angels wiping people out in Revelation.

It'd actually be an interesting study to see if this kind of thing was done more often.

Bowcatz001 said...

Could angels be the source of diseases like AIDS?

I wonder what an angel feels when it is sent to kill a human? Even a rebellious human that needs correcting.

People who kill in the name of God, are they inspired by angels?

Levi said...

Towards the comment about Satan being nonexistent, what is the lake of fire then if there is no devil? Is the devil not an adversary? Also regarding whether God incited David, just as God gave Satan the right to go and bother Job, I believe that God gave adversary or Satan or whatever you want to call it or him the incentive or allowance to make evil appear in David's thoughts. "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning," (James 1:17)and also "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all," (1 John 1:5). God will not bring up the bad without seeing the good in the future as with Job, and even has to give Satan the mission to do it. One can see that everything was good until the fall of Satan from heaven. So don't say that God is Satan (adversary) because God is perfect. He gave the angels the knowledge of good and evil not evil, and according to Ezekiel 28:15 "Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways, but iniquity was found in him. It was not put there by God. Lucifer created it."

maizie said...

Tiny Tim is wrong when he assigns the title of "satan" to God.
Stupidity and mistranslation of scriptures do not a good poster make!

Anonymous said...

Simplifying "religious" words helps keep us from getting into some dangerous doctrinal ruts. Consider angel/messenger, satan/adversary, God/Elohim, lord/master, LORD/Yahweh/I AM, EliYah/my El is Yah, DaniEl/God is judge, ImmanuEl/God is with us, praise the Lord/HalleluYah/praise be to Yah, Gospel/good news. His name will be called Jesus/Yahoshua/Yah is salvation, because he will save his people from their sins. The names of the prophets are encouraging when you understand simply El and Yah.

Anonymous said...

When one has experienced the Presence and the Presence withheld, the chaos of the void is real. No more shallow mental exercises. Simple, real facts please. Searching out the ancient boundary stones and trying to line up with them by grace. Giving thanks for order restored and hope renewed. There is something for us to learn in this struggle David went through. A lot of man's doctrines getting in the road. The fear of Yahweh is still the beginning of wisdom.

Rachael rego said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rachael rego said...

Preacher

http://www.presbyterjon.com/node/161

Reply to Roopster:
Your question is that in Samuel and 1 Chronicle 22 who incited to take the census, God or satun. Please know that anything evil does not come from God but from satan. It can be explained here :
http://www.presbyterjon.com/node/161
Also, in the Bible the story of Job is beautiful to understand the sifting of the devil. This link will take only 10 mins of your time to read. Understand that God loves us and he 'll never ever leaves us.
http://m.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section11.rhtml

Anonymous said...

Many of us people cannot imagine the immense love God has for us and sacrifice it took to let His Son die on the cross. He is the creator of the universe and former of the stars. We are so small and insignificant in comparison to His creation, and yet so loved by Him. Jesus lives inside of every believer. 1 John 4:10 says "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins". Romans 5:8 states "But god shows His love for us that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us".
Tonights talk hinges on the phrase that : Jesus loves you. It might seem really simple, something we heard. But what can be more impressive and that would top out the reality that JESUS LOVES YOU. I don't know, if you love him or not? But I love the fact that Jesus decided what He was going to do, before you decided what you were going to do. Some of you are still thinking about it. Thats okay. He's not! Some of you are still in process. He's not in process. Some of you don't believe he loves you. Some of you haven't received yet that he loves you. Not stopping Him. Some of you cannot imagine comprehend fathom that someone like you a husband, a wife, a son, a mother, a child, a friend, at workplace someone told you that you were "unlovable"and you believed that. And that's defined you and it has cast an identity for you? So when someone says Jesus loves you, you find it hard to believe "My parents dint, my boyfriend dint , my husband dint, my wife dint, my neighbour dint, this person dint they dint, so I know if they dint, He probably doesn't either". I am here to tell you tonight that there is a cross spanning history and eternity and it is an I Love You that is brighter than the sun. You are loved by Jesus Christ tonight. Madly passionately deeply intimately eros-ly pursuing relentless unstoppable determined unending bottomless sure unshakable Love. Every way you can possibly be loved.
Humanity needs to be soaked in the belief, awareness and experience that they are loved by the Son of the living God. Let me tell you about the God who is madly in love with you. You can't always depend on love expect for the love of Jesus Christ because I cannot promise you if you would be loved your whole lifetime. With Jesus, You'll be loved every day your on this planet every hour you exist every moment you breath. His love is unshakable because He is unshakable. He is supreme and sufficient in every single way. All things were created by Him. You are the dream and conception of God. You were a dream in His mind and He decided to create you and love you. You were made for Jesus. Colossians 1:16 "All things were created through Him and for Him". Your lover created everything. He breath out stars. He spoke and the world lit up. Isaiah 40:26 "Lift up your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one and calls forth each of them by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing". The creator of the universe is here to tell you that He Loves You. We are so small, yet so loved. So tiny, yet so priced.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BjSio8jur2Y
This documentary based on John 3:16 The story of Love, which truly explains the heart of our loving God. So blessed are we to be His children.
You are loved so deeply. God cares for us and longs for us to talk to him. Pray bodly to Him and He never let you go.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcqria2wmg