Saturday, April 28, 2007

Why couldn't God combat iron chariots?

Judges 1:19 The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.


Why were the men of Judah not able to drive out the people from the plains with iron chariots if the Lord was with them?


Jason said...

Lack of faith.

Martin said...

Lack of faith is the pathetic fall back whenever a christian's god doesn't come through.

I watched a church family have it's heart broken as they prayed over and over for their little girl who had cancer.

The little girl died.

The reason given was lack of faith on the part of the parents or even the little girl.

What the F--K!!!!

What about Jesus' teaching that faith the size of a mustard seed and charge the mountain to through itself into the seed.

I knew these people and their little girl personally and their faith was far greater than that of a mustard seed.

Lack of faith is ANOTHER blame game that mentally ill christians play on each other when their religion produces no or negative results.

The other biggie is "there must have been some sin in their lives preventing god from working"

What???? The god of the universe won't heal my daughter's cancer because I jerked off to the internet. F--k god then!


It's all lies people!

god does not heal.
he does not answer prayer.
It has scientifically been proven to do nothing.

It is a numbers game and manipulative play on the simple minded with regards to probability.

Watch this video, you too Jason.

The REAL reason the Jews couldn't beat the iron chariots was that
the USA wasn't formed yet and didn't give them better weapons than their enemies.

More stupid crap.

Every time the ancient Jews win, it is by the hand of god.

Every time the ancient Jews lose, it is lack of faith or sin, or the devil or god being mysterious or higher in his purposes.

Lind of like when church little leagues battle it out and both sides are praying for their kids team to win. The winner thanks the lord, the loser blames themselves or each other or the devil or tries to learn a lesson from god.

Grow up and evolve already!

Jason said...

lol You're an angry person, Martin. Your posts are most entertaining.

A "pathetic fall back"? Pray tell, what's actually going on in this verse other then lack of faith?

"there must have been some sin in their lives preventing god from working" Scripture deals with this very statement quite well. You know your Bible inside and out so you must know the verse I'm referring to.

Martin said...

"Pray tell, what's actually going on in this verse other then lack of faith?"

What actually went on there was the jews did not have weapons or war tactics as good as the plainsmen.

They got their asses kicked by
a more skilled adversary with better equipment.

No need to super-spiritualize it.

Did we lose in Vietnam because of a lack of faith on the part of the troops?

Did we get our asses handed to us by the Afghans because the Lord was not with us, or perhaps Allah was with them and stronger than Jehovah this time?

Did the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor because Buddha was with them?

Did we get to drop the A-bomb because Jesus abhors Buddha the false god of the Japanese?

Using religion to explain the outcome of violence and war is like using condoms to jerk off so you don't make a mess.


Jason said...

"No need to super-spiritulize it". lol You know we're discussing the Bible here right? The Israelites were able to conquer entire nations better skilled then they were because they had the faith God would be with them. Every time they lost a battle, it had nothing to do with weaponry or tactics, it was because God wasn't with them a result of lack of faith or a sin (the seige of Ai is a good example). We know this because the Bible says this.

And here you go again with Vietnam and Afghanistan. Martin, the Bible is the topic. Roopster is doing a wonderful job posting these verses and they're great for stimulating discussion and research into some of the whys and hows that aren't as easily accessible as most would like. It's not a forum for personal rants. If you want to attack the validity of the Bible, do so by using it against itself. Quote verses, research a Bible topic, etc. But don't bring useless and unrelated topics into the mix as a means of releasing some of your pent up anger.

Martin said...

You have to use common sense and real world scenarios to combat the dogmatic and foolish view that the bible is a historically accurate or literal telling of how things went down in Jewish history.

"The Israelites were able to conquer entire nations better skilled then they were because they had the faith God would be with them. Every time they lost a battle, it had nothing to do with weaponry or tactics, it was because God wasn't with them a result of lack of faith or a sin (the seige of Ai is a good example). We know this because the Bible says this."

You obviously believe the crap in the old testament even though there is no hard proof the account in those books is really how it happened.

Many modern, honest scholars have uncovered proof much of the early Hebrew scriptures were rewritten, updated and enhanced while in Babylonian captivity.

Why? Many newly educated Hebrews felt the religion and stories they were passing to each other were too far-fetched and too primitive and looked silly to other more well thought out myths and legends they learned about once educated about other relgions adn other cultures.

the bible is a hodge podge of boorow themes, myths and legends.

If you refuse to look outside the scripture for evidence you are a fool and afraid of the real truth.

My analogies to WWII, Vietnam or Afghanistan are not useless.
They prove flawed thinking in the bible and in the christian cult.

You are again avoiding the truth that god does not intervene in war and it is simply a convenient excuse no matter what the outcome.

A lot of my points are very valid but you are a smug small-minded believer who will never see the light about the fairy tale book you are trying to decipher.

Only use the bible to attack it's own validity. That's a good one.

There is no validity to the bible except unto itself. Same goes for the Koran and Book or Mormon.

If you look into actual history, record of ancient cultures and archeology and use a little common sense the bible fails apart quite easily.

Are you sure you aren't a pastor?
Only read the bible... nothing else matters. Garbage thought control.

Read Sam Harris's "Letter to Christian nation" if you have the balls.

Martin said...

Jason the Christadelphian...

That explains it!!!

Aren't you the weirdos that teach a man should NEVER have long hair even though most images of Christ show him with long hair.

There are even groups of Christadelphians who teach a woman should never have short hair either as backed up by many scriptures.

I remember Christadelphians protesting christian heavy metal bands like Stryper in the 80s simply because of their hair.

I am arguing with a wacko.

You do realize your "flavor" of christianity is classified as a cult by many mainstream theologians and masters of apologetics, don't you?

Martin said...

"Christadelphian teaching bears certain important doctrinal resemblances to traditional Armstrongism and the Jehovah’s Witnesses: rejection of the Trinity as Satanic; Christ’s atonement for past sins only; the necessity of good works for salvation; the impersonality of the Holy Spirit; a denial of eternal punishment and so on." John Ankerberg

Jason said...

So far all I've been hearing is "you believe in crap". Call me hard-headed but this is hardly grounds for me to rennounce my faith.

Hebrew Scriptures were rewritten in Babylonion captivity. Definitely. I have no problem with this. Here's why: The Bible is the inspired word of God.

Where's your proof stating that these same Hebrew writers changed the original manuscripts to make them more realistic?

I'm avoiding the truth that God intervenes in war? If I knew what point you were making, and it's tough when digging through the immature comments and insults, I'd respond to it.

See Martin, you're saying a whole bunch of stuff right now and I'm at a loss why a) you're so angry, b) you feel the need to attack my beliefs, c) why you feel the need to attack Christadelphians and d) what you actually want to talk about.

space said...

Yup, you're definitely an angry person, martin. Maybe you should get laid. Might help reduce some of that pent up stress.

Martin said...

I am an angry person?
You don't even know me, you judgmental dolts!!!

You have experience one aspect of my personality, which is fueled by quite a bit of frustration and disdain for all religion in general.

If I seem angry it is because all religion is a lie. IT IS MANMADE, all of it. Yet, it continues to control society's mores from politics to education to the media because the masses are ignorant lemmings and religion is the opium of choice for those afraid to be individuals and think for themselves...

Being judged by religious wackos angers most people if you haven't made it out of your churches or out of cyberspace and experienced the real world.

Go to a gay bar and start telling people they will go to hell because of how they are and you will get a beating.

Go to a mosque and tell them Satan has deceived them all and Islam is a lie. You may not be alive afterwards.

Hiding on the internet and flexing your "spiritual knowledge" and bigoted views on life is too safe and you people are total wimps when it comes to real persecution.

I get laid more than you Space, I guarantee it. I work in the erotica industry and hang out with sexually open minded people every day. I've been to parties you could only have wet dreams of. I have video and pix to prove it.

Jason said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
space said...

I ate a plate of nachos the other day that you could only dream about. It was so good. I don't have video or pics but seriously, take my word on it.

Jason said...

"You judgmental dolts..." Now THAT'S funny. You're not angry, you just like to use angry words.

Gays are going to hell? The Bible says that...?

What's so amusing about your "people hate to be judged" comment is that you're judging me for my beliefs. You're the ultimate hypocrite and you don't even know it.

Hey Space, Martin gets laid more then you. You apparently don't know him but it he sure knows a heck of a lot about you!! Wait...the post was coming from inside the house......GET OUT!!!!!!! HE'S RIGHT THERE!!!!

Martin said...

Jason, you are obviously a bible nerd of some type and need your silly cyber alliances.

And Space, let me know where you got the good nachos. I loves me some nachos.

Here is one such party I
went to out in Cali at a porn star's mansion.

I X'd out the contact info so you don't try to evangelize these nice pron start friends of mine.
Oh, and Howard Stern and Tommy Lee were there.

Lori Lust huge Mansion Party December 9th 2006

Tired of the same old boring Porn Party? Want a piece of History?
How about the largest and most exclusive event of the year. The Lori Lust Mansion Party. Hosted by Lori Lust of , Co host Mia Rose and many more large names to be added as co - hosts coming up.

Lori also has many Playboy models and Glamour models coming from Glamourcon. As well as tons of porn stars, red carpet, media, exclusive VIP area, DJ, Bar, large Dance Floor, and $500 contest for hottest outfit.

The best body in the Industry is also expecting many large name porn stars as well as agencies to attend. Many Porn Stars have already confirmed for this event so the list is growing large so you better rush to get on it. Also mainstream magazines and TV companies will be attending the event.

Excitement is an understatement for this monster extravaganza so you better email or call 323-XXX-9797 and get on the guest list.

For industry-only VIP A-list and Media contact:

Music and liquor flow 9:00 PM to 7:00 AM ( 9 - 2 AM then Special After Hours 2 AM - 7 AM )

Red Carpet Arrivals: 9:30 PM to 11:30 PM will be held. Top Industry and Playboy only VIP Area.

Where is the Event: XXXX Wilbur Ave. , Northridge Ca. 91324

Jason said...

I'M a bible nerd? You seemed more then happy to share with everyone that you know your Bible inside and out.

space said...

You seem to have left out all the important details.

call 323-493-9797
For industry-only VIP A-list and Media contact:
9521 Wilbur Ave., Northridge Ca. 91324

tiny tim said...

Cool. Maybe I'll go. Bring a Bible, some bottled water, and preach my heart out ;)

Martin said...

Uhhh... It was in December.

Religious ADD strikes again.

But go ahead Tim, go preach your lil' heart out to adult entertainers and save them from their art and nasty, naughty sex lives. beat you to it and they have the respect of Ron Jeremy even though they are a bunch of hypocrites.

As if you NEVER look at their work on the good old internet when no one's looking, right?

weird people on this here board.

Anonymous said...

Jesus DOES heal. not in every case, but God is real.

what wonderful fruit you are producing over here paul..............

Martin said...


Show me one documented proof of healing through prayer to Jesus where real doctors are involved before and after the healing that YOU have experienced in yourself, someone you know or a loved one.

Just one.

Not recovering from the flu or surviving a heart attack or even remission from cancer.

Those things are common
in even in atheists.

Something truly miraculous like someone being cured of AIDS or an amputee growing a leg back or a child with a birth defect like cleft palate being made whole.


Pointing to charlatan faith healers like Benny Hinn is not proof.

Even his ministry has not provided one, well documented healing after all the theatrics and falling on the floor nonsense is over.

Funny how christians can never provide a personal experience with healing.

It is always something they read about in a book, or saw on tv, or a story heard from a charismatic speaker's mouth during a meeting.

I'll be waiting...

tiny tim said...

There were no scientists present when the world was formed yet you have no trouble believing it happened the way they say it did. You're a faith-based individual like everyone else.

Anonymous said...

I wonder why healing as a result of prayer has to be done in front of a witness before it's believed? God answers prayer in many ways, and oftentimes the answer to our prayer is what doesn't happen . We don't get sick, we don't go hungry, and the list goes on.

Being healed by God of various physical ailments is also done every single day, just not in a way that's sensational enough for a skeptic to see God. A broken bone sets properly, cancer goes into remission, menangitis isn't fatal, and this also goes on.

Remember, just because one doesn't believe in God, doesn't mean that God isn't working with them. Everyday miracles and blessings are given to even the most stubborn skeptics as well.

Jason said...

2 parts...

1.) To answer the question posed: we see other times (such as Kadesh Barnea) where God's strength did not cause failure but Israel's fear to act did. We have seen what God has done to other chariots so I believe we have no reason to fear that an iron chariot could defeat God. The passage gives little detail, but it may well have been that Israel was afraid to fight against the chariots. Yes; this does stem from lack of faith. They did not fail because they fought without faith though. Instead, they failed because they did not take action.

2.) I skipped a lot of the comments here but did see a request from Martin that someone talk about a genuine healing from God. I do not pretend to understand why some are healed and some are not (faith is not the ultimate answer), but I do know that some are healed.

My wife was diagnosed with neurocardiogenic syncope several years ago. It was under control for a long time with light medication, but after a frightening trip to the ER, her prescription had to be changed. This new prescription kept her heart in check, but basically took the enjoyment out of life for her. She prayed and prayed for over a year to be healed. After she was lead to a passage in the Bible concerning healing, she asked her doctor if she could try to stop the medication. The doctor allowed her to stop and wanted her to check back in about two weeks (or sooner if a problem came up).

Two weeks later, the doctor checked her out and said, "Congratulations, you're drug free." I believe those to be some of the sweetest words she and I have ever heard. She has not needed medication ever since and it has been at least two years.

This may not have been life and death, but God is concerned with everything about us. We hope that with this healing, blessings will come to others.

God does have all the power in the Universe.

Terrin B said...

If we read this text, we will soon discover that there are about 5 factors of failure involved.
1.The Canaanites possessed superior weapons.
2.Israel disobeyed God by making treaties with the Canaanites.
3.Israel took up the worship of many local gods and broke the treaty that God made with them (2:20-21)
4.God was testing Israels faithfulness to obey His commands.(2:22-23, 3:4)
5.God gave Israel a time to test how they would fight while not following Him.
Also, these were not complete Iron chariots but wooden chariots with iron fittings.